Similarly, the cap, when turned upside down, could be used for everything from a bowl for eating to a washbasin for shaving and rinsing to a miniature bucket. You need to be a member in order to leave a comment. Thanks for the video, i will show my step father and see if he can recognise his dad, I would think this is more likelyto be lettering on a Civil Defence unit helmet than Home Guard. British Mark Mark I Brodie U.S. P17 helmet The most obvious difference may be observed by turning the helmet over. The American shell is heavier. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. I am not sure if the colour is original, as most pictures shown here are of a lighter green. This list is on going if you know of any more please let us know. It was also used regularly for cooking or heating up food, though the practice was discouraged, as over time it made the metal more brittle and the helmet less effective at protecting the wearer if he was shot in the head. Canadian Railway Troops who died 18/12/1918 BUSIGNY COMMUNAL CEMETERY EXTENSION France GWF is free to use so please support the Forum Brodie Steel trench helmet Identification marks By Vimyridge Helmets such as this did not leave the factory this way. dailyinfo[9]=' Boy SALEH HAJI S.S. TANGISTAN (Swansea).Indian Merchant Service who died 09/03/1915 BOMBAY 1914-1918 MEMORIAL, MUMBAI India ' Northamptonshire Regiment who died 14/03/1915 LE TOURET MEMORIAL France ' Will be adding helmets to the page soon, alexanderandsons 2nd Bn. So just a shell with an unknown unit marking probably . Both helmet have a similar dome and similar skirt. Some form of identification may be required if you are unknown to us. Original WW1 US English AEF 79th ID British BRODIE M1916 Tommy 79 Helmet. if (year < 1000) year+=1900 During the war, the Company took part in fire watching duties, manned a gun at the exit to Westminster Underground Station and undertook a wide variety of training schemes. Follow on Instagram, The British Mark I Brodie & the U.S. P17, know the difference, M42 winter camo. dailyinfo[12]=' 457 Lance Corporal Arthur Price ROWE 2nd/7th Bn. NPB. In all around 900,ooo of these helmets were made by McCord's. M1 Helmet Identification; Shipping; Sizing; 1-877-862-5245; TOP POTS - DEDICATED TO M-1 HELMET PRESERVATION. The MK 1 Brodie helmets are made from original MK2 steel shells have stripped out liner, chinstrap hangers and repainted the shell in the correct WW1 wartime paint then fixed in a 100% accurate reproduction. helmets which have a wide range of different paint colours and textures, most of these new helmetswere made in early 1941. Colloquially, it was also called the shrapnel helmet, Tommy helmet, or Tin Hat, and in the United States known as a doughboy helmet. He said it has a separate rim and a serial number of ZA57. Remembered Today: In addition, the heads of soldiers had relatively greater exposure than other body areas above the parapets in the European trench warfare of that period, and the British "Brodie" helmet and the nearly identical U.S. Marine Corps Doughboy helmet gave insufficient protection to the back of the skull (in contrast to the protection afforded by . The helmet was painted a camouflage mix of green, blue and orange, though a variety of alternative colours were also introduced for use in different theatres. $3,000. Your link has been automatically embedded. More innovatively the steel cap was also used as a multi-purpose device by American soldiers during the Second World War. I already have two others. Royal Army Medical Corps who died 22/02/1919 NUNHEAD (ALL SAINTS) CEMETERY United Kingdom ' The design of the helmet is familiar to anyone who has seen a First World War movie. . The helmet came without the liner and the onlymark in the helmet is 4B and I don't know why but under every scratch looks red maybe the helmet was red. The American M1917 helmet shells were pressed and stamped into bowl shapes by 7 company's they were. Copyright Treasure Bunker Ltd The helmet istself is a Mk.1* but i have looked and cannot find any manufacturer stamps on either the helmet or liner/strap. dailyinfo[25]=' 262952 Private Archibald Stanley BURGNEAY 8th Bn. H.M.S. The colour is fine looks to be the factory green finish, you can buy second hand original liners on line as long as it is for the MkII helmet. WWII US M-1 101st AIRBORNE 506st PIR HELMET ALL ORIGINAL. About this item Reproduction of the World War Two British Brodie Helmet complete with a sprung webbing chin strap. Developed by John L. Brodie, the Model 1915 "Brodie" helmet, also known as the "Tommy" helmet, was the first steel helmet introduced to British soldiers during WW1. dailyinfo[10]=' 14780 Member Ida Styles HUGHES (Oxford) Womens Royal Air Force who died 10/03/1919 OXFORD (ROSE HILL) CEMETERY United Kingdom ' and Gen. Hos. Though I do not know the code for the manufacturers. It also is interesting that the British kept the Brodie Helmet while the US went to the M1 for better protection. dailyinfo[4]=' Matrose Paul KURZKE Torpedoboot "G85" German Navy who died 04/03/1919 CANNOCK CHASE GERMAN MILITARY CEMETERY United Kingdom ' I suppose it also is one of the images of the start of WWII for the US with forces in the Pacific wearing it while under Japanese attack at Wake Island and Pearl Harbour. Few military helmets, whether in modern times, or further back, have the distinction of being used in over ten major wars. I know not many American helmets made it overseas, and the painting of division badges on helmets seem to be inconsistent. Was wondering if anyone could give some more info on it. Such was the models effectiveness that large numbers of it were either purchased by nations from the US, or they developed their own clone or copycat models. This was the American M1 helmet, arguably the most iconic and recognizable military helmet produced in modern times. Highland Light Infantry who died 19/03/1915 LE TOURET MEMORIAL France ' Unlike the ubiquitous Stahlhelm which had been developed by the Germans around the same time the Brodie did not have a nape piece extending further down at the back to protect the neck, however, it did offer greater all round protection from shrapnel descending down into the trenches. The last issue chin strap was introduced in FM 21-15 by 1972 . Thus, in one guise or another it shaped the design of military helmets all over the world for much of the twentieth century. I'm thinking the lettering could refer to a department he possibly. The first to develop an effective helmet were the French who had developed the steel Adrian helmet by the summer of 1915. My buddy has a Brodie Helmet which he might be offering for sale. FOR SALE! Paste as plain text instead, Copyright Treasure Bunker Ltd 1-877-862-5245; Home; Contact; About Us; Why Top Pots; G. Budd, Manufacturing Co. A few have turned up with manufacture marks similar to those found on British shells A number of firms made P17s for the U.S. Military. The Brodie helmet is a steel combat helmet designed and patented in London in 1915 by Latvian inventor John Leopold Brodie (Latvian: Leopolds Janno Braude).A modified form of it became the Helmet, Steel, Mark I in Britain and the M1917 Helmet in the US. There were at least six British helmet manufactures and nine steel suppliers. I believe they were numbered 1-24. The helmets from both countries are so similar that often times people believe that the Spanish helmet is a German helmet. // Stop Define Variables for days of the month I would leave the chin strap that is original, it's up to you what you want to do, with the helmet shell, it would have had an originalBMB liner dated the same as the shell, but I've seen BMB helmets with other maker. Here's a list of WW2 American Helmet Liner Makers. June 9, 2018 in if (year < 1000) year+=1900 http://www.cefresearch.com/phpBB2/index.php, Here is a reply from Roger Lucy, who wrote the book TIN LIDS, "In his article on the Mk.I in Militaria # 6, July, 1994, the British helmet guru, Marcus Cotton, suggests that FKS probably stands for Thos. I don't think FKS has been definitively pinned down, but most sources say it represents Firth & Sons Ltd. By Parrotman287 1 year ago. The first letters representthe company who pressed the helmet. dailyinfo[8]=' 13277 Labourer Klaas NERO South African Native Labour Corps who died 08/03/1917 PUGU ROAD 1914-1918 MEMORIAL Tanzania ' var mydate=new Date() 6 Reserve Lorry Park Royal Air Force who died 28/02/1919 BELGRADE CEMETERY Belgium ' The Brodie helmet, called Helmet, steel, Mark I helmet in Britain and the M1917 Helmet in the U.S., was a steel combat helmet designed and patented in 1915 by the Briton John L. Brodie. Thanks for the info lads. Our philosophy is simple, we want to help people to own a piece of World War II history. var dailyinfo= new Array(31) The ring didnt stay gone long and was brought back in 1917 no doubt to the joy of the average Tommy. First questions and then the story. Generally soldiers were still being issued cloth caps or leather headgear of a kind which offered little or no protection from modern artillery and the shrapnel which sprayed out from it. What pattern of helmet is this, and given the unusual markings, is it a valuable relic, or is it some fantasy piece suitable to be stripped and restored to issue green? BASICALLY A DESCRIPTION OF HOW THE WW1 MKI BRODIE EVOLVED INTO THE WW2 MK2 STEEL HELMET,VIA THE INTER WAR MK1* VERSION..AND HOW TO TELL THEM APART.EACH HELMET WILL ALSO HAVE ITS INDIVIDUAL. British Nurse Vera Brittain, http://warrelics.eu/forum/helmets/ww1-b met-16128/. The Brodie helmet, called Helmet, steel, Mark I helmet in Britain and the M1917 Helmet in the U.S., was a steel combat helmet designed and patented in 1915 by the Briton John L. Brodie. Specification. dailyinfo[19]=' 9228 Corporal George F. PARRY 2nd Bn. You can post now and register later. dailyinfo[27]=' 5778 Private William CUMMINGS 6th Bn. var day=mydate.getDay() Or there are new reproduction liners also on line for sale. 25.00 1 bid 5.35 postage 5d 19h Click & Collect Repro British Army WW2 Plastic Helmet Tommy Doughboy Brodie Style WWII Soldier 12.99 Click & Collect Free postage Originally this was a hard-hat like support which was designed to fit inside the steel cap, offering comfort, support and an extra layer of protection. Hi Tom, it looks to me like it might be a Home Guard helmet but I will let Colin give his opinion first. Nearly three million of these M1917 helmets were produced by the time that the war ended in November 1918, clearly indicating the importance of an effective military helmet for the American armed forces going forward. I am pretty sure the ww2 helmet was worn protecting/ patrolling the British Houses of Parliament after he was injured in standard service. By Willow1 3 years ago. var day=mydate.getDay() dailyinfo[15]=' SS/342 Able Seaman Henry George SMITH (RFR/CH/B/5534). lol. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. The Brodie was the first modern military helmet developed by Britain. var month=mydate.getMonth()+1 Powered by Invision Community, (In no particular order) Whether it be a small antique shop, militaria show or even an online auction. Meccano Only a few very minor details set them apart from each other. Powered by Invision Community, Brodie Steel trench helmet Identification marks, Upcoming changes to logging in - click here, GWF is free to use so please support the Forum. dailyinfo[29]=' Oberleutnant zur See Axel Carl Ludwig VON SCHOENERMARCK S.M.S. Progressive Knitting Works - Brooklyn - New York. That's interesting that he was a staff member, because staff members were asked to volunteer to help in fire watching duties, with miles of corridors and hundreds of offices to check. The shell is an American made M1917A1 made by the ( McCord Radiator Co ) the heat stamp number( 10C ). A desirable unit marked helmet can go for around $500.00. Northamptonshire Regiment who died 14/03/1915 LE TOURET MEMORIAL France ' dailyinfo[28]=' 19673 Leading Aircraftman Samuel Ambrose TICKNER Meritorious Service Medal No. BRODIE HELMET $110. Mar 11, 2023 Confederate Id'd Saber by Haiman, 31st Virginia $2,100. stands for General Steel Wares of Toronto, who made helmets from 1940 to 1942. Capac = Capac Manufacturing Co - Michigan. The Great War Forum Limited Imperial Russian Adrian helmet. The helmet resembles an upside down dishpan or washbasin in that it consists of a bowl-shaped cap and a large uniform brim running around the entire exterior. SEVER CEMETERY EXTENSION, ROUEN France ' New Zealand Engineers who died 13/03/1918 ST. POL COMMUNAL CEMETERY EXTENSION France ' Depots simply would repaint helmets where the paint had lost its anti-reflective properties with an extremely heavy gravel finish. Inland = Inland Manufacturing Co ( General Motors ) - Ohio. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. The British Mark I chinstrap bails are made from 16 gauge brass or in some cases steel wire. Here is an image ( sorry for bad quality) dailyinfo[9]=' Boy SALEH HAJI S.S. TANGISTAN (Swansea).Indian Merchant Service who died 09/03/1915 BOMBAY 1914-1918 MEMORIAL, MUMBAI India ' By 1916, Brodie helmet . It was in production already in the summer of 1915 when he was issued with his patent, but it would quickly evolve into a new design in the autumn as some deficiencies in the original were quickly removed and improvements were introduced. dailyinfo[26]=' Chaplain 4th Class The Rev. 11-30-2022 Local Time 06:08 AM The "4B" is a McCord Radiator stamp for the M17A1 (aka "Kelly") helmet. The Brodie was the first modern military helmet developed by Britain. The British Mark I chinstrap bails are made from 16 gauge brass or in some cases steel wire. Click to enlarge the picture 04-08-2013, 01:49 AM#4 homerj109 Re: Help Identifying Brodie Helmet Upload or insert images from URL. the corners been cut off, can't make out the shape in the photo. No liner and what looks like a disintegrating pad (asbestos concern?). This used brass case is approximately 75 mm diameter and is marked with a 1916 manufacturing date. English: The "Brodie" shrapnel helmet was the flat steel helmet worn by British Empire troops in the first and second world wars, and U.S. troops in World War I. However, the M1 sits further back on the head than the Brodie, thus providing greater protection to the neck. A thick felt pad was fitted to the top of the skull interior to aid in cushioning against impact. The U.S. produced over 2.7 million Brodie helmets by the end of the war. This website uses cookies for functionality, analytics and advertising purposes as described in our, "I pressed forward with the others to watch the United States physically entering the War, so god-like, so magnificent, so splendidly unimpaired in comparison with the tired nerve-racked men of the British Army. The Great War Forum Limited Similarly other late entrants into the war such as Portugal relied on supplies of the Brodie to protect the heads of their troops. April 2, 2014 in A 'no helmet' bare head case was used as a control (denoted BAR). Irish Guards who died 18/03/1916 CALAIS SOUTHERN CEMETERY France ' Simultaneously, though, the administration of Woodrow Wilson ordered the production of an American-made helmet. British chinstrap bail The chinstrap bails on a British Mark I and a U.S. P17 are of a completely different design. The story, for many years I wanted a bog standard WW2 Cdn pattern helmet for my collection, mainly a display piece. A-125-2 ID IN SHELL (HG-43) WWII GERMAN SS M-42 HELMET IN ORIGINAL SHIPPING CRATE. The real beardy types, anoraks and train spotters would only consider the type A and B as true Brodies. By knowing about a few small details the buyer will never make the mistake of purchase the wrong helmet. The threads that discuss the helmet will contain lots more information. Most American helmet do have heating lot numbers. Frank Harrison EDINGER Army Chaplains Department who died 26/02/1918 HOLLYBROOK MEMORIAL, SOUTHAMPTON United Kingdom ' Available in two sizes: ABB9300-1 58 cm, US 7 (Small) ABB9300-2 61 cm, US 7 5/8 (Large) A note on sizing, larger size liner may protrude slightly from the bottom of the helmet. The American P17 chinstrap bail negated the flaws of the British design. This dilemmaseems to become particularly problematic for the British reenactors who after spending hundred of dollars on their kit accidentally purchase an American helmet because they dont know the difference, or for collectors who want one or the other represented in their collection. dailyinfo[28]=' 19673 Leading Aircraftman Samuel Ambrose TICKNER Meritorious Service Medal No. Welcome to the forum SR71, there's not much to go on without it's liner. Both manufacturers stamped their helmets with a two to four-digit number followed by a letter, but Schlueter also stamped an 'S' beneath their heat stamps. I looked around and could not find any listings for that steel maker. My reply to to that collector is below "If the Brodie Red stamp has the words "patent applied" then it's pre pre Aug 1916 , post Aug 1916 stamps were marked "patent no.1 18 03/16". Yet there is one piece of military headgear from the twentieth century which was used not just in the Second World War, but also in the Korean War, the Indochina or Vietnam War, the Iran-Iraq War, the Falklands War, the Yugoslav Wars, the First Gulf War and a range of smaller conflicts such as the Cambodian Civil War and several localized clashes in Central America and the Caribbean during the 1970s and the 1980s. By the by, not all MKIIs are British or even issued to troops. Manufacturing Co - Philadelphia - Pennsylvania. The Liner maker is R.H.Long 1917 and the other liner stamp mark could be an Army. The liner can always be a replacementthough that style screams WWI and should be held in place with a rivet.. The unpainted shell was dipped onto a vat of olive paint. The shape of the helmet was also somewhat similar to the Brodie in that it was based around a circular steel cap which provided maximum protection to the top of the head, with the rim protecting the ears and upper face. After the war he was, as prior stated, he held a very high position and worked in surveying land and buildings for military purposes, including Goonhilly which was his most famous and he even chose that name. Benjamin Electric Co - Des Plaines - Illinois. dailyinfo[16]=' 22659 Serjeant George SNELL Military Medal "T" Bty. That's a tough one without knowing what the actual letters are. I have never seen one with a leather liner like this, it is spiralled around the entire helmet. In total approximately seven and a half million Brodies were produced by the British by the time that the First World War came to an end in November 1918. colour is the paint finish of the helmet, in the photo it looks blue/grey ?. The original and very distinctive steel helmet adopted by Great Britain was designed and patented in 1915 by its inventor, John L Brodie. Hello Leon. The cover was made from the same type of cloth the sand bags the held up the trench wall were made of. After many experiments, Brodie came to the conclusion that a relatively simple form of helmet would offer reasonable protection, be serviceable and cheap to produce in large numbers. Unfortunately, your registration has been declined by the auctioneer. The helmets I have seen wereUSM1 helmets, however they might have worn the Brodie pattern too earlier on. http://www.criticalpast.com/video/65675048436_military-helmets_assembling-helmets_dipping-into-paint-tanks_wooden-crates. If its a British helmet, could it be one provided to the Americans before American helmet production caught up? dailyinfo[20]=' 10259 Private Charles BUCHANAN 1st Bn. //-->, By I helmet was made up of 12 percent manganese. Few military helmets that have ever been manufactured are as iconic as the Brodie helmet.